PRESIDENTS – Lula: The Most Popular Politician On Earth


Because Leadership
defines the future of mankind Presidents Leading ChangeWhat we are criticizingare the appalling conditions of public schoolspaying hunger wages to their teachers.When there are chairs, there is no chalk.When there is chalk, there is no eraser.
When there are chairs, there is no chalk.
When there is chalk, there is no eraser.And most childrengo to schoolnot to study.They go to school looking for the school snack.A modest worker, son of ilitarate parents, raised in ignorance and extreme poverty, overcomes his own personal limitations and strong difficulties, to beccome in 2003 the president of Brazil; the 5th largest country in the world with over 200 million people and by far the largest economy in Latin America Hunger, the death of four of his siblings, a violent and alcoholic father who died in poverty, and the harsh working conditions of the time were some of the factors that inspired the young worker to improve the quality of life of
the poorest of his fellow citizens. This obsesion began here in Sao Paulo city when at the age 24, the young worker jointed a trade union. Within a few years he became the most important and
acclaimed union leader in Brazil. In this role, he never hesitated to defy
the military regime of the time, leading major strikes and popular demonstrations achieving concrete benefits for the working class. Once consolidated as an effective
and charismatic union leader, Lula founded a political party to ensure
the participation of the working class in the legislative power. Before the corruption scandals in
the largest state-owned company in Brazil, the Workers’ Party known as the PT, became a powerful and respected
political force within the nation. In this first chapter of
Presidents Leading Change, we will talk with the man who having
experienced the problems of his people, knew firsthand the suffering of the most
helpless of his compatriots. We will talk with the union leader who was jailed for defending the rights of workers. We will talk with the politician
who overcame the defeats of three consecutive presidential elections, and with the head of state who
has been considered by many to be the best president in the Brazilian history. From the monument of independence we extend a warm welcome to the former president of Brazil, Mr. Luis Ińacio Lula da Silva. Welcome to our show Mr. President: Presidents Leading Changes. Nelson Mandela said in his autobiography: “Upbringing determines the
personality of the leader.” What do you think about this? I fully agree with Mandela. I think upbringing, the one you have in childhood and adolescence shapes your personality,
and your personality shapes the way you live, until the very end of your life. That’s why I agree with Mandela. Elaborating on that same subject, You described your mother as a heroine. How was your relationship with her? I would not say she was a heroine, I would say that my mother was the best role model I could have had. My mother was a woman who died illiterate. But my mother knew how
to take care of her children and she knew how to make his children learn to take pride no matter what. And it was my mother’s perseverance that forged my character and
the person who I am today. That’s why I think my mother was an example which I will follow until the end of my life. On the same subject, You have mentioned several times that you led your country like a mother; you loved everyone equally, but you gave more help to
those who needed it the most, and to those who were most vulnerable. You had 7 brothers. Do you think your mother considered you more vulnerable? The truth is that I had 26 brothers and sisters. from two…, from two, My father had two women; My mother gave birth to 12 children,
and the other woman to 14. The problem was, I was the youngest. So because I was the last one to be born, I was treated with an affection
which the elders did not receive. I was the privileged one. But I was I was the son, of my mother’s children who had the most opportunities: I was the first one to get a primary diploma. I was the first who forged a professional career, I was the first to own a refrigerator, to buy a television, to buy a house, to buy a car. I was the luckiest because, I was the youngest and because my older siblings helped me. I was the youngest of my 8 living siblings who lived with my mother. Regarding your father There was a problem due to his poverty, and his ignorance which
lead him to be an alcoholic and an illiterate person. How was your relationship with him? Deep, deep down my father was a hardworking man: he worked in a coffee warehouse and he took care of two families, and he was able to put food on the plates of
two families. He paid the rent of two houses. But my father was a very severe man, possibly because of his origin: Pernambuco, a very poor area. He was not treated with love by his parents. My father was not a loving person. My father was not a person who would hug you. So the memory I have of my
father is of a very hard man, a very severe man, a man who did not give us permission to do stuff, to have fun. So I have no reason to like my father. But I think he managed to take care of the family. When my mother lived with him, he was able to bring food to the house every day. So I think he partially fulfilled
his obligations toward his family. Do you remember a moment of affection, a moment of love with him? The only gesture of affection that I remember from my father was when I was 8 or 9 years old. I injured my leg, and my father carried me on his back
and took me to the hospital. It was the only gesture of affection
that I ever saw from my father. I had almost no relationship with my father. When my father used to come home, everyone left. We didn’t want to be around him. That was my family’s relationship with my father. Was there any other person in your childhood who has been relevant during your adult life? I think the relationship I had with
my siblings was always very good, especially my brother Frei Chico; who is older than me and he introduced me to the union world. And my sister. My sister who is two years older than me, she was a kind of a second mother. A woman who stayed up waiting for me, she would feed me at midnight, she took care of me. The people who most influenced my childhood were my mother and my siblings. Especially the youngest two. Do you remember any important
event during your childhood That had an impact on your life? No. I experienced a disappointment
when I lived in Santos, something interesting happened: my brother was the first of his class, my sister was also the first of her class, I was also the first of my class. And the day the prizes were handed out, the only one who did not receive a prize was me. They had forgotten my prize. So I was frustrated because the first gift I ever received I bought it myself. I don’t recall anything extremely remarkable, but I did experience frustration because I had not received a single gift in my life, and the prize that I won,
they did not give it to me. Do you remember the first
gift you bought yourself? A bicycle. An old bicycle. I was 17 years old. And it was very old. I did not spend much time riding it,
but rather fixing the bicycle. But nevertheless, It was important to me. You were able to overcome hunger, a lack of formal education, an alcoholic father, the death of your first wife and
first son, who died in childbirth. Your freedom was taken away from you. You lost the first presidential election. You lost the second presidential election. And you even lost the third presidential election. And you became the president of Brazil, finishing your mandate with more than 80% approval. How? Who are you? I am a Brazilian citizen, I represent, up to a certain extent, the average of Brazilian political consciousness When I was a union leader, I told my comrades that I was going to politically evolve as much as the working class
would also politically evolve I believe that the Brazilian
society evolved politically, they helped me create a party, they helped me found a workers’ union, and they allowed me to
participate in many elections. And the elections I lost did not discourage me. I knew I could get to the presidency and I believed that I could do more than
those who had come before me, because even though I did not have the
academic education they had. But I did have training, practice, experience in the real world in Brazil
that they never got to know. I had learned a lot in the unions. The unions were a great school to me The PT (Workers Party) was a kind
of postgraduate I did during my life. And when I became president,
I was fully ready to run Brazil. That’s the truth. In the speech I gave, after winning the elections, I did not make any promises, the kinds of promises
politicians are used to make, like that I was gonna be able of
solving the problems of humanity. No. I said three things: First, I’m going to do the necessary. Then I will do what it is possible and when we least expect it, the people are gonna be doing the impossible. If at the end of my term, every Brazilian is eating 3 meals per day, I will have done the greatest deed of my life. I did not promise anything that was impossible. And it was that will and that obsession that motivated me to prove that a poor man is not a problem in
Brazil and anywhere in the world. When leader is committed, when he clearly knows who he is, and when he makes society
participate, help him govern, the chance of doing things well is very high. And I feel proud. I am sure that in the history
of Brazil and perhaps throughout all Latin America, no one, helped Brazilian people as much as I did. All the important decisions I made in life, many people from the society
participated and helped me discuss them. I was a citizen who arrived at the palace (of government) knowing I was no better than others, I knew I was not superior to anyone and that the only reason I was there was to prove that it was possible to provide
a service to the Brazilian society. that meant Brazil was not mine. I was from Brazil. I was not ruling for my own ambition. I was ruling for the people’s wellbeing. So I did not have to have absolute certainties. I preferred talking to the people. We made 74 national conferences
to define public policies and that made me feel very confident. I confess to you that our first mandate was not easy, but the second term was as if the hand of God were on my head: because everything we did went well. Everything. Absolutely everything we did went well and I believe it was more than
what people expected. That’s why I said governing is easy. But on a more personal level, How? What happened to you? I had one… I had an obsession to govern Brazil the right way. And my other obsession was to not make mistakes. I governed with the idea that if I failed, never again a person from the working class
would reach the presidency of the republic. And I observed Walesa’s failure in Poland. Walesa was Poland’s president, He was an important union leader in the 80s. When he tried to be re-elected in Poland,
he got 0.5% of the votes. So I said to myself: if I do poorly the workers will feel frustrated, the poorest people will be disenchanted and I do not have the right to fail them. So, that obsession, made me have faith,
to talk a lot, to discuss a lot, I met with many people, I made people participate, I transformed the palace (of governmente) in a place frequented by all of Brazilian society. To that place came kings. came queens, came princes, came bankers, entrepreneurs, prime ministers. But other people came too: garbage collectors, workers who had no land. Disabled people got to visit the place. Blind Brazilians guided by their dogs. There entered, the minorities, who are usually
forgotten by the rulers. So then, we transformed the government palace into a kind of home for the Brazilian people. Whoever wanted to enter, could do it and everyone was treated with respect and dignity. That’s why in all of my speeches I said: I rule for everyone, but especially for the poorest, because they are the ones
who need the Brazilian State. So I think that was the key to my success. The leaders, who move away from the people and think they know the truth, those who think that all
knowledge is in their heads, that they know everything, that they can do everything, those leaders, them, are certainly on the road to failure. I always knew that it is always possible to learn a little more. Do you remember the moment when you decided to become President of Brazil? I did not set out to be president they proposed me. And I confess I was afraid. I was very afraid because 10 years before being a
candidate for the presidency, I did not like politics. In 1978, I said to myself:
I do not like politics, and I do not like people who like politics. And in the year 1980, I founded a party. In 1982 I was running for governor. And in 1989 I was a candidate for the presidency. And when I was a candidate for the presidency, at the beginning of the campaign,
I thought that it would not turn out well because there were a lot of important
people to compete with. And I was a stranger and it ended up that I went to the second round. and a great number of people who were important were not in the second round. And I lost that election by a small difference. On the first presidential election I discovered… I discovered something fantastic: during 1985, I gave an interview saying that I did not believe that a blue-collar
worker could come to power by means of a normal election. And four years later, I got 47% of the votes. And then I started to believe
that it could be possible. A blue-collar worker could reach
the presidency in an election. and this was going to be possible in a democratic regime. That was the main lesson I learned from my defeats. That is consistent with what Henry Kissinger said in one of his books. He argues that in order to be a good president, it is more important to have courage and strength, rather than intelligence. I would like to ask you: Can you give us a concrete example
where you as a president had to have great courage to make
an important decision? I think there were two things I did, which were very hard to me: First, increasing the primary surplus. I spent my whole life being
against the primary surplus. And in 2004, I had to increase
the surplus from 3.75 to 4.25%. I will never forget it because that is one of the most difficult
things a president could do. I think that no other country in the world
would have had the courage that we had. Why did we do it? Because I had a political advantage. And I decided to exchange the political advantage I had on my first year to stabilize the country in the second year. And that was exactly what happened. We stabilized the Brazilian economy. We won international respect and Brazil started to work properly. That was the first big decision. And that decision was not made by many people, I made that decision almost entirely on my own. It was me and the minister of finance the ones
who decided to go ahead with that measure. And the second thing we did which
also took a lot of courage was the reform of the pension
system on the public sector. That costed me a lot… it costed me a lot, but we thought we needed to do it; a political reform to the
Brazilian public workers. And we did it. The PT (his political party) had its problems: there were many fights, but we were able to do it. So I believe that there is no measure of force. There are necessary measures which a leader needs to take. A ruler cannot only adopt comfortable stances. Sometimes he has to take stances that are not well seen. As a ruler, sometimes you have
to take a stance that your electorate will not like. But they are necessary. A ruler has to make those kinds of decisions. He has to treat people with love, with a lot of respect. He must never lie to society. He ought to tell the truth
no matter how hard it may be. We always have to tell the truth. And then, when people begin to believe in you; when you have the support of the people, you can do many things. And it was in this manner that we were able to achieve things for this country. Now, you mentioned your minister of finance. What skills did you look for, when choosing a person for that position? Before being president, I met on a monthly basis with many economists; prestigious Brazilian economists. And I did not want an economist
to be a minister of finance. I wanted someone with a more political head. Someone who had the intelligence to learn. Someone who had wisdom to talk and listen. Someone who knew how to assemble a good team. Someone who could think politically
and not economically. We needed political decisions,
not economic decisions. But how? If the minister of finance
did not have the technical skills, who told you that you had to increase the primary surplus from 3.75 to 4.25%? Because although it is an act of courage, it is also one of technical knowledge. Let me tell you something dear. If the problems of the world were technical, we would not have problems. We would call people from the
best universities in the world, we would call the best Nobel Prizes in the world, and we would place them in the government
and everything would be solved. But what actually happens is that, a good politician… a good politician, can put together an excellent technical team. A good politician. Now, a good technician, does not build a political team. I have the following example in my head: a lawyer believes that everything can be solved by lawyers. An architect believes that everything
can be solved by architects. An engineer believes that everything
can be solved by them. each one takes into consideration
their expertise and thinks that the world depends on them. The economist believes that everything can be solved by a good economist. And we are realizing that it is not like that. I… I discussed a lot about economics because I was a union leader. We participated on many strikes, We negotiated a lot. But the memory I have from economists… Do you know what it is? It was like this: I cannot spend more money than the amount I’m going to earn. That was a lesson I learned from my mother. When we received the salary
at the end of the month inside a sealed envelope, we handed it to my mother. She would open the envelope, take out all the money, and she would begin by saying: this here is to pay the bakery, this is to pay for electricity, this is to pay for water, this is to pay the bills. If there was any leftover money,
she gave a little to each one of us. If there were no leftovers, it’s over. Debts were paid first. If there was a leftover you could buy something. That was the first great lesson
I learned from my mother. Do not spend more than what you earn. Second: If you are going to spend a little more, you have to consider the debt in terms of the amount you could be able to pay. Because if you have a bigger debt
than what you can afford, you are going to go bankrupt. So these two lessons were the ones that guided me. I knew that I could not spend
more than what I earned. I knew, and I knew that my debt had to be carefully responsible. And that was in line with the
thoughts my economic team, we discussed it at length. Moreover, I talked to a lot of people. I did not make decisions
talking to a single person. I talked with friends over the phone. I called union leaders. I called other economists. Because I had always been like that. I always liked to have more than one opinion. I was always guided by the motto: the more people talk, the more we can learn. On that same subject, When President Bush called you
asking to support the invasion of Iraq and you refused. How did you make that decision? Who did you ask for advice? Who did you listen to? Let me tell you one thing that
I consider very important. Governing does not entail difficult decisions if you do much of the obvious. What do I want to say? When Bush, when Bush called me, on December 10, I went to the United States. It was the year 2002; I had been elected president
but I was not in office yet. And Bush spoke 40 or 50 minutes on the need to destroy terrorism, and the most important terrorist
was Saddam Hussein and he was in Iraq. I said: President, I want to tell you one thing with all my honesty. My war is not against Iraq. Iraq is 14,000 km away from my country. I do not know Iraq. Iraq does not know me. My war is against hunger. So Brazil will not participate on that alliance. Objectively. I thought Bush would get angry, that he was not going to like what I had said, but it was the opposite. Today, after all these years, I can tell you that I had a very, very civilized relationship with President Bush. So, you made that decision alone. I made it at that moment. I made it at that moment. It was me and the minister of foreign affairs. because it did not make any sense for
Brazil to participate in the war with Iraq. It did not make sense. It was not our problem. I also did not believe that Saddam Hussein
had chemical weapons. The man who was responsible for the atomic agency, was a Brazilian ambassador. And he said that Iraq did
not have chemical weapons. The invasion was in 2003. And where are the chemical weapons? That was just an invention to justify themselves in front of
the American people, to justify a war. When you refused to support President Bush, What did he say? Nothing. He thanked me for the meeting, and we said goodbye, and we became friends. I think sometimes in politics, a sincere “NO”, is better than a false “YES”. That’s the truth. Being the president of the fifth largest country in the world, by far the most important Latin American economy, with all the success you achieved, with all the international recognition, the high popular approval after your mandate, how did you manage, or deal with your ego? If I tell you that I do not have ego, you would not believe me. Look. I believe that if I had ego, I would have not stood where I stood, because I had been a trade union leader, I had organized the most
important strikes of this country. I formed the largest left party on Latin America. I created the largest trade union
on Latin America, along with thousands of other colleagues. For a long time I was a very
important popular figure in Brazil. That never made me vain. That made me more responsible. I knew that every word
I uttered could have an impact. That every gesture of mine could have an impact. That everything I did could have an impact. So I was always very responsible, out of respect to the people who believed in me. I knew that I was not the result of myself. I was not the result of my merits. I do have some merits. But I was who I was, because I was pushed by the Brazilian society. I always told the Brazilian workers: As they grew politically, I was growing politically, I was growing politically, and I became a spokesman for them. So I owe it to them. I did not have any reason to have ego. It is always very important to be praised, It is very important to have prizes, It’s very important to be remembered. But it is also important to be aware, that if you wear high heels, you fall hard. There is an expression that Winston Churchill used which goes; “The more I know man, the more I love my dog.” Do you agree with him? Women often say that expression here in Brazil. No, I do not agree I do not agree, I do not agree. I am in politics precisely because
I believe the human being I have faith (the human being) Even those who do not like me, those who hate me, those that oppose to me, I think one day they will stop being so mad, they won’t feel so much anger, they will not hate me anymore. I learned to be patient. And do you think there are people
who hate you in this country? Of course. Of course, Of course. And a lot of. Why? Why? In our government, the greatest social evolution in the history of this country took place. Millions of people ascended from social class. Millions of people ascended. So, when people ascend socially, people start using public spaces, that before, were used by less people. Because people began to occupy
empty seats in air planes, Empty spaces in theaters. Empty spaces in restaurants. Empty spaces in cinemas. Empty spaces in public parks of this country. People began to occupy spaces
on the streets with their cars. And that begun to bother some people. It begun to bother some people. Let me tell you a story that I am very proud of. Look. I am the only president of Brazil
who does not have a university degree. And I’ll be remembered in history as the president who made more universities
in the history of this country. And that leaves a lot of
intellectuals angry with me. And why did I build the schools? Because I think that nothing, nothing, nothing in this world, makes human beings more equal than university, than education. And that created animosities. A poor black man who gets a study grant to attend a private school, there, at the school, there are people who do not like
that a poor man is studying there for free. So, we have to deal with that. And have hope on the fact this is a
political process, the evolution of a society. One day, people will understand: the more equal human beings are, the more opportunities people get, the more the world will improve. There will be less violence. There will be less envy. There will be less hate. There will be less war. There will be peace. On that same subject Mr. President. That vision. the Brazil you wanted to accomplish. Which are the two or three major objectives? You already mentioned three meals a day. In addition to that, which were the other big goals
you wanted to achieve? One of the things that I proposed to myself, was to recover the self-esteem
of the Brazilian people. Brazil was very mistreated by the world. When a Latin American travelled to any part of the world, people at the airports assumed that they were cocaine traffickers. So, what made me very proud was that during our government, the Brazilian people became proud of travelling. Because when they arrived to an airport, people knew they were from Brazil, and
they treated well, they were treated with love. And so people started to like themselves, because a human being without self-esteem, cannot get anywhere. That human does not go forward. So, I think in order to go forward, people have to have joy, people have to believe, and they have to convey that joy. And you have to share hope all day, and you have to remember
that each day will be a better day. And go to sleep being thankful, and dream that something better will come. When I lost an election, I lost in October, and in January I was already
traveling through Brazil to re-form my army. There’s no time to mourn the defeat, lament the defeat. No. While those who won are celebrating, the ones who lost are working to be able to win next time. You told us how you selected your ministers, and in particular, the minister of finance. But, how did you do to set
the goals to each minister? What process did you use to define the
objectives of the minister of health for example? I did not have a ministers’ policy. The first meeting I had with the cabinet, I defined that in my government there would be no policy
of minister A or minister B. Everything was government policy, because if you have a ministers’ policy, when that minister leaves, and another one enters, he will come with another policy. And a government has to have a policy for the entire mandate. During my second term, on January 27, I called a meeting and I defined
what I was going to do. I defined what I was going
to do in infrastructure. I defined what I was going to do in agriculture, and I defined what I was going to do
in science and technology. I defined what I was going to do in education. And we said the following: I gathered the cabinet to say: from now on it is forbidden to have new ideas. Hereinafter, we have to execute what has already been decided. In relation to the opposition, What did you learn? The opposition is the opposition, the government is the government. The government has to know that the opposition is there to vote against the government. The opposition is there to create difficulties for the government. If people understand that, then they will govern more calmly,
without getting nervous. It’s hard to imagine that the opposition will easily vote for you. The opposition can vote when there is a major problem,
a very serious issue, you may get some votes from the opposition. But if you know for certain that the opposition will
vote against your policies, it’s better for you. You do not have illusions. But no matter what, we have
to learn to deal with that. I believe that is what strengthens democracy. What did you learn from your
relationship with the press? Especially with the press of the opposition. Honestly I do not want to talk about the press of the opposition, or about the press of the government because there cannot be
a press of the government, because then it would be a
newspaper from the state and you would not have much credibility. I prefer to tell you that I am a man who learned throughout my life to deal in the most respectful
possible way with the press, with the certainty that the great judge of the press is the television viewer, the radio auditor, the reader of a newspaper or of a magazine. People are measuring growth in terms of their behavior, and the evolution of them, too. Because if it were true that the press had the influence they think they had, I would not have been reelected, I would not have finished my term with the greatest approval
in the history of my country. In terms of international relations, you worked a lot as a president in Latin American integration.  Could you tell us a bit about that? in terms of Latin American integration
as well as global integration. That question, is a question that touches me deeply. Because I never understood, how it is possible that Brazil, that has 12 neighbors, -we only have no border with Chile and Ecuador- has almost 16,000 kilometers of dry border. I want everyone to advance together. To establish a mutual relationship, Where we can benefit from one another. When that productive chain is established, when there is homogeneity among
the countries of South America, people will generate more employment, they will generate more wealth, they will have more access to technology, more information. Only then are we going to grow together. Can you imagine that the first bridge between Brazil and Bolivia, was built after 500 years. Would you believe me if I said that
the first bridge between Brazil and Peru was also built after 500 years? that means that, we did not talk to each other. So, I wanted Brazil to joint South America, this is why we created Unasur, so together, we made a great agreement with the European Union, so together, we made a big deal with the US, so together, we built a relationshipwith Africa, so together, we built a relationship with the Middle East. There is no trade limit. When everyone sees us, strengthened, there, we will be a very important block. So I dream that Latin America with a prominent relationship with the USA, who never treated Latin America with respect. I dream of a good relationship between South America, Latin America and Europe, on equal terms. You worked for that. Would you like to continue working to achieve greater integration? It is difficult. I am creating the Lula Institute, that takes care of integration in Latin America, and takes care of integration with Africa. The idea is to exchange experiences in policies that were successful, in matters of public policies but also on integration. The problem is that rulers have to discover that human relationships are key in politics. Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. Not even the most modern cell phones on Earth, nor the most modern IPhones substitute a handshake, substitute a hug. Because politics is chemistry. I had no protocol. I remember one day people told me: “You cannot get too close to the Japanese emperor; and I hugged him. ” and I went there and hugged the Emperor of Japan. If you received a call from a recently elected president to ask you for a single advice on how to properly lead his country. What would you say? I would say the following: First, you must know why you won the elections. Then stick to the program that allowed you to win the elections, put it at the head of your bed and read it every day before going to work so you never forget what you promised during the elections. If you do that, you will fulfil the commitments you made
with the society who elected you. Thank you very much, Mr. President. We have a questionnaire developed by a French writer called Marcel Proust; It’s basically a questionnaire to get to know you a little more, and to have fun. The first question is: What is the virtue you most
appreciate in a human being? Character What is the trait you hate
the most in other people? Envy. What is your most outstanding characteristic? I believe it is character. What is the feature you most
detest about yourself? In terms of defects, I must have many defects. Sincerely I don’t know. Some say I listen too much. I must have many flaws. I must have. I’m going to ask Marisa (his wife, now deceased) and in another interview I will tell you. What are you afraid of? I am afraid of making mistakes. What saddens you the most? When Corinthias loses. (his soccer team) What makes you really angry? There are many things that make me angry, but above all, people who do not
complyl with what was decided. When something is planned for a certain day and people do not fulfill it, This makes me very angry. Of all the current leaders, who do you admire the most? For what they represent here in South America and for the success he is
having in his government, I am an admirer of compañero Evo Morales. I could also tell you that I love Pepe Mujica. Of all the great leaders in history, Who would you like to meet personally? There are many people I would like to meet. One of them I actually met was
Fidel, who was alive. Another one that I met was Arafat. I, I I admire Obama for the symbolism of Obama’s arrival to the presidency of the USA. I admired Churchill, I think he is an admirable figure. How would you like to be remembered? How I was. I want people to remember me exactly as I was. With all my virtues and flaws. Nothing more than that. Thank you very much, Mr. President. This interview is over, but before closing the program we want to offer you 90 seconds to communicate to the world your most important message. If this program will be seen by young people and students, I would like to tell the youth that they have to believe in their participation in politics. Sometimes I see young people
protesting against politics, speaking badly about politics. I would like to tell the youth
that there is no solution. The perfect politician you want is inside of you. So go into politics, participate. Be your candidate for councilor,
candidate for mayor, candidate for president of the Republic or a candidate (f) And another thing too. There is no time for youth to be discouraged. It is important to raise your head and understand that we have
to fight all the holy days so that the next day can be better. You have to have hope, fight and persevere and do not give up ever. This is the advice I can give to
those of you who are watching me. Never give up. When you think that all politicians are worthless, go into politics and be yourself the perfect politician you want. Thank you very much, Mr. President. It has been a privilege. You have been very kind.