J. Krishnamurti – Brockwood Park 1976 – Talk 3 – Is psychological time an invention of thought?


Shall we go on with what we were
talking about the other day, when we last met here. We talked about relationship,
which is so important, because probably
that’s the basis of all society. When that relationship is
in constant conflict, as it is now, our whole social and moral structure
must, inevitably, be corrupt. And we said
– if we remember, rightly – that relationship,
being of extraordinary importance, breeds conflict because our relationship is based
on the movement of thought – the movement of thought being
memory, measure, knowledge. And when knowledge
interferes with relationship then, there must be conflict – knowledge being, all that one
has accumulated during the past incidents, nagging, and all the rest
of human relationship – what goes on. And this morning, if we may continue, we ought to talk
about time, sorrow, love and that extraordinarily
important thing also in our life, which is death. We have rather a crowded morning with so many things
to talk about, together – and I hope that we are
sharing this thing together, not merely listening
to a series of ideas, words, and through wrong listening,
make what is said into a conclusion and agree or disagree
with those conclusions. But what we are trying to do
is talk things over as two friends,
concerned with human problems and the importance of bringing about a radical transformation
in our consciousness. That’s what we have been
talking about, and we shall go on with that,
today and tomorrow. What is time? I think this is
important to understand because that may be one of
the factors of our fear about death. So, we must understand
the nature of time: not the scientific fiction of time
or timelessness but the actual, psychological time
that thought has built. So, there are two kinds of time: the chronological, the daily events
– yesterday, today and tomorrow – and there is the psychological time – the hope, what will be,
and the achievement of what should be. All that involves time.
Time is a movement. Please, follow all this, in yourself,
not as an idea. Time is a movement,
as thought is movement. So, thought and time
are very closely related. There is chronological time
– yesterday, today and tomorrow – catching the bus, train, going to
the office and all the rest of that – time according to a watch,
daylight, night. And, there is the whole
nature of time, as thought has built
in the psyche, in ourselves, that is, ‘what is’
and ‘what should be,’ a movement from here to there. Is there psychological time at all, or it is, actually,
an invention of thought? That is, what is jealousy,
anger, cruelty, violence – that is ‘what is.’ And to overcome that, we need time. That is the traditional, educated,
conditioned thinking that to change ‘what is’ to
‘what should be’ from here to there – you need to cover that distance,
time which is effort. Right? We’re meeting each other? Effort, to go from here,
psychologically, towards an end – that end projected by thought,
a purpose, a goal, an achievement, enlightenment
and all the rest of it. That is, to move from here, ‘what is,’
to ‘what should be,’ the ideal. That’s what we have accepted,
that is our normal thinking, or rather, educated thinking. It may be, perhaps,
a neurotic thinking. Because we do not know how
to deal with ‘what is,’ immediately, so we think we need time
to achieve that which should be. Because we don’t know,
or we are not capable, we don’t understand
how to deal with ‘what is’ – anger, jealousy, hatred, sorrow and all the immense confusion
which thought, man has created in himself,
and so outwardly. So, we need time.
At least, we think so. That is, if all hope is removed
– hope is time. Right? Please, follow all this. One is desperate, anxious, frightened, all the things
that human beings go through, to transform all that into something
which is, perhaps, totally different, we think we need a process of time. Right?
Please understand this, clearly. That is, the psychological time – the chronological time
and the psychological time. We are talking about
the psychological time. Time, we said, is a movement
as thought is a movement, in time. So, is there an ideal,
the ‘what should be,’ something different from ‘what is’? You understand my question? I’m envious, one is envious. We know all the implications
of that envy, with the results of it in society,
in our relationship with each other, and to overcome
or to go beyond that envy, I need some days,
weeks, months, years. Is that so, or is it total illusion? Can ‘what is’ be changed,
immediately, instantly? If it can, then the ideal,
that which should be, is non-existent. We are understanding each other?
Please, perhaps, some of you
are here for the first time and not have listened
to all the other talks and, therefore, this may all
sound rather strange, extravagant and quite loony. But actually, when you go into it,
very deeply, into oneself, which is important because as we said, you are the world
and the world is you, and wherever you go,
every human being, whatever colour, whatever nationality,
whatever religion he may be, he has these human problems
of great sorrow, tears, laughter, anxiety, pain, that’s the common factor
of human beings. And so, the world, wherever you are,
that human beings are, they go through the same
psychological phenomena as yourself, so you are, actually, the world
and the world is you. If you can realise that,
feel that profoundly, then it becomes
extraordinarily important that one should transform oneself
completely, psychologically, because then you affect
the total consciousness of the world. That gives you enormous
vitality, energy, strength when you see that you are
like the rest of humanity and, therefore, there is no separate,
individualistic struggle to overcome one’s own
particular sorrow. So, we’re saying, it’s very important
to understand time. Time is part of our consciousness. Time is the division
between ‘what is’ and ‘what should be’ and the effort made to change ‘what
is,’ according to ‘what should be,’ that needs great time,
from here to there. I think we must question
that whole process. Though it has become traditional,
we must question it, doubt it. And doubt is
a very important thing in life. To doubt. Perhaps one or two religions
– like Buddhism – start by questioning everything. As we said the other day, if you start
with certainty, as most people do, then you end up with nothing. But if you start
with doubting, questioning, being sceptical,
trying to investigate, then, you end up with clarity. So, we are questioning this idea that we need time to change
‘what is’ into ‘what should be,’ which is a psychological process. Why is it not possible to change ‘what
is,’ immediately not have the ideal? You understand my question? Ideal is a projection of ‘what is’
away from ‘what is.’ The ideal is non-existent.
It’s a fiction, the ideal. What is actual,
is what exists, ‘what is.’ So, we are dealing with ‘what is,’
which is actual, and trying to change ‘what is’ into
‘what should be,’ which is illusory. So, we are always caught
between the fact and what is illusion. So, if one is able to think very
clearly, objectively, non-personally, then is it possible
to change ‘what is’ without transforming it
into ‘what should be’? Is it possible to change,
say, for example, envy – with all the implications
involved in envy – without having an opposite,
which is non-greed, non-envy, to change ‘what is’? And you can change ‘what is’ only
when you have the energy which is not being wasted
in trying to overcome ‘what is.’ I wonder if I’m… You see, again,
we are traditionally bound, conditioned to an ‘opposite’ – love/hate, violence/non-violence. We’II take violence. Violence is, apparently,
in the human nature – anger, competition, ruthlessness, trying to express oneself
at any cost against everybody else, the worship of success,
either in the business world or in the spiritual world,
which is the same thing. Human beings are violent. Violence implies
not only physical violence, there’s psychological violence, which is comparison. Where there is comparison,
there is violence. Where there is imitation,
there is violence. Where there is the acceptance
of authority, psychologically, there’s violence. Imitation, conformity, competition, all those and many other factors
are the indication of violence. That’s a fact. That’s ‘what is.’ And human beings
have created the opposite of it, which is not to be violent
– which is called ‘non-violence.’ They’ve talked a great deal
about it, in India, but they are equally violent. Is it possible to change violence
without having its opposite? You understand my question? That is, not to imitate,
not to conform, not to compare, not to seek success. If that is possible,
then non-violence is unnecessary. So, because we cannot or we are
not willing to transform violence, we invent the non-violence and we say, ‘I will, eventually,
become non-violent.’ That’s a nice, comfortable,
lazy, illusory idea. This is what we indulge in, but if you are really serious, deeply concerned
to be totally non-violent, including anger, hate
and all the rest of it, if you’re deeply concerned to
transform that, you’ve got the energy, because that energy you have wasted
in conflict with violence. So, it is possible to transform
‘what is’ without the idea of time? Is this clear?
Please, this is very important because we’re going to go
into something presently, which is, when you are talking about death,
time is involved in it. So, we must really understand
the nature and the structure of time, how time works. When you say, ‘I will be,’ or,
‘I must be something in the future,’ that involves time because you are
dissatisfied with ‘what is,’ you condemn ‘what is,’
you suppress ‘what is,’ or try to argue it away and so, you utilise all that energy or you waste all that energy
in this process, whereas, if you look at this violence, with all the implications
and not have any idea of its opposite, which is illusory, then there is a transformation. You understand this?
Do it! So, time in meditation – you have to find out
if time has a ‘stop.’ Therefore, it’s very important
to understand the nature and the movement of time,
how our brains are caught in it, our whole consciousness
is filled with time – time being accumulated
knowledge as experience which becomes a memory, and that memory is the storehouse
from which thought begins. From the very beginning, man’s
very beginning, that’s the process. So, one not only has to enquire
into the nature of time, but also, one has to find out
if time has come to an end, if there is a stop to time. This has been a tremendous problem –
you understand? So, then we can go to the next thing,
which is, what is our life? Living and dying.
What is our life? When you look at our lives,
what is it? Wrong occupation,
battle with each other, wars, anxiety, great pain, lack of relationship
in the true sense of that word – there is relationship
between two images which you have about another
and another has about you. Relationship is
between those two ‘ideas,’ between those two thoughts. So, what is our living? When you look at it,
very carefully and very seriously, not pretending,
not trying to cover it up with words and clever, cunning thought – what, actually, is it? We waste our life, don’t we? And from birth to death
it’s a constant battle, constant effort, constant struggle,
to be or not to be, to become something
or not to become something, to establish right relationship
and always trying to fail. Wars, hatreds, deep hurts – that’s the content of our
whole consciousness is our life, apart from the biological
growth and decay. If you examine, as we are doing, now – please do it, together,
if you’re at all serious, if you’re not serious, don’t bother. It’s a nice day,
go outside and enjoy it. But if you are serious,
look at your life – pleasure, sexual, other forms
of pleasure, fear and sorrow. This is the content of our
consciousness, with all its varieties, complex movements
in this limited consciousness and that’s what we call ‘living.’ With faith, with doubt,
with anxiety – you follow? – a perfect confusion – mess! And what is dying? You understand my question? Living, which we think is marvellous and dying which is the most
terrible thing to happen. And, in between these two things,
there is love and there is suffering. We have talked, at some length,
about fear and the necessity of being
completely, totally, psychologically free from fear.
We went into that. And also, we talked about – together, we have talked, together,
not I talked and you listened, we have talked over, together
– pleasure, and the movement of pleasure,
and the pursuit of pleasure. Pleasure is totally
different from joy, pleasure can be invited, cultivated,
joy can never be invited – it comes. But when it comes, memory takes it
over and makes it into a pleasure. We’ve also talked about ecstasy, which is not hysteria,
which is not neurotic, but that ecstasy can only come when we understand
the meaning of pleasure. And, we are asking, what is love? Because, apparently,
that plays a great part in our life. That word ‘love’ is loaded,
like ‘God.’ So, we have to investigate, also
what it means to love and what is the difference
between pleasure, love and compassion. This has been one of the problems
of human beings right through the ages,
right through the world wherever human beings exist. They demand, they’re wanting
to love – or be loved. And when one is not loved,
there’s all the anxiety, the fear, the anger, the jealousy
– you follow? – all that creeps in. So, one has to, if you are at all
serious, and I hope you are because we are trying,
we are concerned with the transformation of
the human consciousness, completely. So, one must go into this question
of what is love. Apparently, human beings
have reduced love to pleasure. Yes? What do you say? Yes? Pleasure, sexual
– love, is also implied – love of one’s country,
love of a book, love of a picture… You follow? We use that word
in a most extraordinary way. And also, I love my wife,
or I love my husband. So, we have to go into this question, not only what it means,
the word ‘love,’ the word itself, both in Sanskrit and –
if you go into it – is part of desire – the meaning of that word. We are looking at the root meaning
of that word, ‘desire.’ I won’t go into Sanskrit,
what it means. So, we have to see
what desire is and what love is. Is desire, love? Please, we are investigating,
we are exploring, we are not saying it is, it is not, together, we are working this out. So, one has to go into what is desire because, apparently,
in most of our lives desire plays an immense part. So, we have to understand it.
What is desire? When you desire a dress,
when you desire something, what is that, the movement of it? Surely, there’s first the seeing,
the visual seeing, which is sensory then, there is contact, the touching,
the smelling, the seeing – then sensation. You’re following all this? Seeing, contact, sensation.
Right? Then thought comes in, and thought says, ‘That dress
will look beautiful on me,’ which is the structure of image. So, sensation plus thought
is desire and the image. You follow this? You can see this, very simply,
if you look at yourself. This is the process we go through. You see a beautiful woman
or a beautiful car, or beautiful man – whatever it is – seeing, contact, sensation then thought comes and desire,
and the image. Right? So, we are asking, is love, desire? Which is sensation, contact, thought or desire plus thought,
and the image, picture – is that love? Or love has nothing to do with desire, which means no picture,
no imaginative projections, not based on sensation.
You are following all this? So, you have to find out
where sensation plus thought is desire, with its image. There is sensation. It’s natural to have one’s senses
highly developed, that’s healthy. To see a beautiful thing,
that’s part of sensation. When thought takes it over
it becomes desire. Now, please follow this. Can you see a beautiful person,
a thing, a lovely tree – whatever it is –
sensation, and not allow desire to come into it,
which is the ending of thought? I wonder if you understand all this. This is the highest form
of discipline. You understand? To see, sensation, and
no thought coming into it, at all and, therefore, no desire, no image. You’ve understood what I’m saying? That requires
a great sense of awareness. We’II discuss that presently, later. Awareness, concentration
and attention. We’II talk about it, later. So, is the movement of thought, love? Or, love has nothing,
whatsoever, to do with desire? Now, one has to find this out, which means you have
to give your attention, be aware of the movement of desire,
movement of thought, and the natural sensation – to be aware of this whole movement. Then you’II ask, you must ask,
is pleasure, love? And if it is not pleasure, then what is love, or desire? Please, intellectually, logically,
all this is so, logically, so-called intellectually – but the intellect is an instrument,
a fragment of the totality, and by merely looking
at the description, intellectually, you’re, then,
only looking at it partially and, therefore,
you don’t see the whole of it. So, intellect not only must see the
reason, the structure of this thing but also, know its own limitation. So, we are asking, is pleasure, love? Pleasure being desire,
the movement of thought, sensation and the pursuit of it. And if it is not love,
then what is it? Can there be jealousy
when there is love? Go on, sirs. Those of you who have girls
and boys and husbands and wives, and all the rest of it. Can there be love
when there is attachment, when you hate, anger, when you’re
hurt by another, is there love? And so, if none of these is love, then the word is not the thing.
You understand? Then the word ‘love’
is not the actual state, the reality of it, the truth of it. Then what is the relationship
between love and compassion? You understand? The word ‘compassion’
means passion for all, passion for everything living. That’s the meaning of that word. But that compassion cannot exist
when you are, in yourself, fragmented, broken up, when there is hate,
and when there is suffering. So, we have to examine
what is suffering. Why is it that we suffer,
psychologically, not biologically, physically – that we can understand
when we go into the question why human beings throughout the world,
carry this agony of suffering? Are you interested in all this? Not interested, that’s the wrong word, are you concerned about all this? How much time are you willing
to spend on all this? Time, in the sense…
You understand? Or only for this morning
you are concerned, for an hour, and then slip back
into our old traditions, our old ways of life
which have no meaning at all, and remember, occasionally, what has been said
in this tent, in this marquee, and you say, ‘By Jove, that’s true, I must go back
and do something about it,’ and forget it the next minute. Or are you really, totally,
completely committed to this? It’s only then you will understand,
very deeply, what all this means, how to live
a totally different kind of life. So, we’re now asking why human
beings suffer, psychologically, which has a great bearing
on the physical suffering. If there is no suffering,
psychologically, then it may affect your body,
completely, there is no
psychosomatic disease, then. So, we must go into this question,
very deeply, why human beings suffer. All religions – the Eastern religions
and the Western religions – the Eastern religions
have a very clear definition why human beings suffer: according to them, they say, ‘What you have done in the past
you’re paying for it, now,’ which is called ‘karma,’ in Sanskrit. The Sanskrit word ‘kar’
means to do, to act. If you have not acted
rightly, accurately – not according to a pattern,
according to tradition, if you have acted
rightly in yourself, truthfully then, there are no regrets
in that action, then, that action is total. This is what we are saying,
not what the Hindus said. The ancient Hindus said,
‘You have many lives. In each life, unless you act, rightly, you’re going to pay for it
by next life, therefore, you suffer next life and,
therefore, you learn from suffering how to act properly, rightly,
accurately for the next life.’ You follow? Here, in the Christian world,
you have given up suffering, put suffering
on the shoulders of one man and very comfortably
settled the problem. But, actually, you’re suffering. You have got the symbol – which is rather
an unfortunate symbol – you have got the symbol, and though you have said
that he’s suffering for us, and yet we go on suffering. So, let’s forget the symbol,
let’s forget all that and see why human beings
in the world – you – suffer, go through such agonies,
tears, loneliness. You understand all this? What is suffering? What is grief? And why should we suffer? Will it purify our minds
– may we use that word, quickly? – will it cleanse our hearts
because we suffer? On the contrary, it hasn’t done it. So, we must go
into this question, very deeply. What is suffering?
There’re many forms of it. One of them is loneliness. Right? Great sense of loneliness – loneliness being
the feeling, the reality, that you are completely cut away
from all relationship, from everything, completely isolated.
Right? Don’t you know all this? Isolated, lonely, and not knowing
what to do with that loneliness which is, you run away from it,
escape and frightened, cover it up and do all kinds of…
– get attached and all that. So, without understanding that
loneliness, suffering is inevitable. You follow this? Please, are we meeting each other
or am I talking to myself in my room? So, that’s one of the factors. Then, the factor that you
like somebody, or ‘love’ somebody – to use that word in quotes –
you ‘love’ somebody, and that somebody turns away from you
and you are left – again isolated, jealous,
hatred, sense of loss, frustration, guilt,
all that is part of suffering. Then, there is the suffering
for someone whom you have lost, whom you ‘loved’ dearly
– again ‘love’ in quotes – and he’s dead – son, wife,
husband or whatever it is, another human being is dead, and you suffer, not only through self-pity but also, you’re attached to that
person, and you suddenly feel lost and in that moment of death,
there’s great shock, biologically,
as well as psychologically. Right?
And many other forms of suffering. Human beings suffer and find many,
many explanations for that suffering – ‘God is just,
he knows why I’m suffering, eventually, he’II solve my suffering.’ Suffering and seeking comfort
in some theory, in some law, in some belief. Or, the Christian world says,
‘Have faith,’ and so on. So, what is it that is suffering?
‘Me.’ You understand? ‘I’ am suffering.’ What is that ‘me,’ what is ‘you’? The form, the name – right? The name, the form,
the various characteristics – greed, envy, pain, anxiety,
hope, despair, depression – a lot of accumulated ideas,
all that is ‘you.’ Aren’t you? Which are all memories, words. So, that image of yourself
is suffering, or that ‘you’ is suffering. Now, will you please
listen to it, carefully. Human beings suffer. And we have escaped from it,
through reason, through logic, through explanations,
through various forms of comfort, entertainment, religious,
as well as ordinary entertainment, every form of escape
from that suffering. If you don’t escape and, actually, without
any movement going outwardly, remain completely with that suffering. Remain – you understand what I’m saying? That is, not move away
from that central fact of suffering – that gives you tremendous stability. Are you understanding all this?
No, you don’t! Look, you suffer. See, understand that suffering
is not resolved through escape, through suppression,
through any form of rationalisation. Suffering is there. Be with it, completely,
without any movement. You’ve understood this, now, surely?
The explanation, you’ve understood, intellectually or verbally,
the explanation – but to do it,
is quite another matter. Now, when you do it, that is,
without any movement of thought, any movement of escape, any movement
of suppression or rationalisation, to be with it, completely, then out of that comes passion. I wonder if you understand all this. And that is compassion. Have you understood something?
No. It doesn’t matter. Watch, look at yourself
and see how you suffer, the urge to escape from it,
see the absurdity of escape, the rationalisation, seeking comfort,
all that’s a wastage of energy, moving away from
the central fact of suffering. You understand? Remain with it. Then, that suffering undergoes
a tremendous change which becomes passion. I haven’t time to go into
more than this, that’s up to you. And also, we must go
into this question of death. Do you want to go into this?
Questioner: Yes. K: Why? You know, please, all these things that we are
talking about are very, very serious and it is only the very serious
that live, not the flippant, not the casual
– you know, all the rest of it. It’s only a man who is deeply,
profoundly concerned with all this, such a man lives. So, we must go into this question
of death, which is very complex. We said we must understand
the question of time, apart from the chronological time
of yesterday, today and tomorrow – sunrises, sunsets –
divided into twenty four hours, we’re not talking about that.
That’s necessary, that exists, and if that doesn’t play a part
in your life, then you’II lose your bus. But we’re talking of something else,
psychologically. Because we are in despair, fearful, then there is always hope – hope
something will take place, tomorrow. So, that is the movement of time. What is the relationship
of time to death? You understand? One has lived ten years, fifty years
or eighty years or a hundred years – a life that has been painful,
anxious and all the rest of it, an empty life, a wasted life, and that life comes to an end,
both biologically and psychologically. I’m going to go into all this. And one clings to the known
and avoids the unknown – the known suffering, the known pain,
the known pleasure, the known fears – one clings to all that
which you call ‘living.’ And one is frightened
to let go all that which you have to do
when death comes. So, there’s the interval
between the living and the dying, the process of time. Then, what is it that dies? Biologically, we have lived
so unintelligently because biologically, physically,
the body has its own intelligence. I don’t know if you know anything about
all this, if you have worked at it. It has its own intelligence, if you leave it,
if you don’t spoil it through taste, through gluttony,
through smoke, drink, drugs and all the rest of the business
that one goes through. If you don’t go through that, that is, through taste,
habit, custom, tradition, then the body has
its own intelligence. That body, organically dies,
the organ dies. We know that. But also, we say,
‘There is something which is me, which must continue because, after all,
I’ve collected so much experience. I want to finish that book
before I die. I must be successful,
give me another few more years,’ and so on and so on. So, what is it that is ‘me’
– that says, ‘I don’t want to die, I must have some kind of continuity’?
You understand? This is our craving,
right through life. From the ancient days, from
the Egyptians down to the present day, and before the Egyptians – the ancient
Egyptians, not the modern Egypt – this has been the problem. A continuity and an ending. The desire,
the immense drive to continue. ‘My pleasure,
I want it fulfilled, tomorrow.’ When you say, ‘There is no tomorrow,’
it becomes a tremendous despair. You understand? So, there is death. So, we have to investigate, together,
not accepting authority, because I’m not
your authority or your guru. To me, gurus are dangerous
in spiritual life. You have to find out, for yourself,
what is it that is ‘me,’ how it came into being, why it has taken such
tremendous importance in our life, and why is it
that it’s so frightened of death. The ‘me’ has come through words, through experience, through knowledge – the ‘me,’ which is the form,
the name, all the bundle of memories,
knowledge, experience, the past, pleasures, pain – all that consciousness
with its content is ‘me.’ Right? Please see it, for yourself. You say, ‘That’s not only me,
that’s only mainly memory, therefore, it’s a material process but there is a ‘me’
which is spiritual. The Hindus and others maintain
and, probably, some of you maintain that there is something
spiritual in ‘me.’ ‘Me’ is the essence of that spirit. When you say the ‘me’
is the essence of that spirit, covered over by all kinds of darkness,
like an onion with many, many layers, that essence of the highest is ‘me’ – that’s still part of thinking.
Right? When you feel that the essence is ‘me’ that’s part of your
process of thought. Somebody has put it into your mind
or you have invented it, yourself. I wonder if you’re following all this? You may not believe it
but thought has created this. But thought is a material process
because thought is knowledge, experience stored up
as memory in the brain and that response to that memory
is thinking. We went through all that
the other day, we won’t go into it. So, thought is a material process. Though, thought can say,
‘There is spirit in me,’ but it is a material process. When you say, ‘I have faith in God,’
it is a material process. The faith in God, God being your projection of what
you think is the most beautiful, omnipotent, all the rest of it,
it is still a process of thought. So, there is nothing – please, bear with me,
go into it, very deeply – there is nothing
but the movement of thought which has created the ‘me’
or the essence of the spirit. It is still thought,
so it is still a material process. So, one clings to the known and one is frightened of the unknown,
which is death. Right? Do you understand this? So, time is the living,
a long interval, and death. We said time is a movement,
movement of thought as measure, so many lives, so many years
– which is all measurement. Now, can that time stop? Which means the living
and the dying, close together. You understand? This takes so much explanation,
all this. That is, death means the ending of that
which has continued. Right? See how important it is that that
which continues becomes mechanical. Right? And, therefore,
there is nothing new, thought may invent something new,
like the jet, it’s something new, or the Einstein theories
– I won’t go into all that. So, thought can invent something new but we’re not talking
about that invention, we are talking about: thought can
invent something beyond death but it’s still
the movement of thought. So, we are saying death means the
ending of a continuity, which is time. That which continues means time – tradition, in your faith,
in your beliefs, in your gods, is the movement of time. So, we are saying,
to die to the things known, now. You understand my question? To die to your attachments, now, which is going to take place
when you die. You understand? Ah, this is really very serious because when we die,
what takes place? The organism with its brain
dies, comes to an end, the brain deteriorates. The brain which contained memory in
its cells as experience and knowledge, that brain withers away. So, there is ending of thought. And, can there be an ending
of thought while living? You understand my question? Which is dying now,
not fifty years later, which doesn’t mean you commit suicide,
don’t jump over the bridge. Which means dying to your pleasure. Of course, you will die to your pain,
that’s very easy, that’s what one want to do, but
one wants to cling to the pleasure, to the picture that you have created
about pleasure and the pursuit of it. That, when the brain decays,
is going to end. You understand what I’m talking…? So, to die instantly to attachment, to jealousy, to fear – die. That’s one problem. Therefore, when there is such death, there is, then, non-continuity
which means the ending of time, therefore, a totally different
dimension of consciousness. I haven’t time to go into all that. Totally different
kind of consciousness, which is not the consciousness
with all its content, which is ‘me,’ but a totally different kind,
a dimension. Now, I don’t die now. One doesn’t die because one says,
‘I must have a little more time. Please, give me a little more time.
I want to enjoy my life. I’ve got a new car, a new wife,
a new pleasure, a new job, please, don’t let me die,
immediately.’ So, what happens to that man or woman – please, this is important for you
to understand all this – what happens to that
man or woman who says, ‘I’m satisfied with things
as they are. I’ve got my property.
I’ve got a good wife, a husband, money in the bank,
and to hell with everything else!’ What happens to that man when he dies?
You understand my question? There are two types of beings
in the world: the one who dies to everything known – the known is the structure of
thought, put together as the ‘me’ – the attachments, the fears,
the loneliness, the despair and, therefore, out of despair, hope – all that he dies to –
to all that there is instant ending. Ending of sorrow is the beginning
of compassion. You think about it. Don’t think about it, do it! Now, what happens to the man
who doesn’t do all this, who is lazy, indifferent, becomes serious
about something which is trivial, or he thinks it is very important to
follow a guru – all that silly stuff – what happens to that man, or woman?
You understand my question? Have you understood my question? There are two types of human beings: the one who is dying
every minute of the day, to everything he has gathered, therefore, he’s never gathering
anything. You understand? Psychologically,
he’s never gathering anything, therefore, there is no ‘me,’ at all,
all the time. And there is the other man,
what happens to him? So, what is the other man? The other man is
the human being or the woman, the human being, like every
other human being in the world. He has lived in sorrow,
in despair, in agony, tears, like the rest of the human beings. So, there is this stream of sorrow – you understand? –
the stream, the river of agony, the river of pleasure,
the river of violence, all that, he’s in that stream,
he has always been in that stream. Right? It’s only the man who steps out
of the stream who is different. Otherwise, he’s like the rest. I know this is a sad picture
– you understand? – this is really a great sorrow,
to see this happening. Therefore, the man who sees
this happening is compassionate. Therefore, his responsibility
is to convey all this. You understand what I’m saying? So, immortality is not ‘me’
surviving, eternally – until the Angel Gabriel
blows the horn – but there is immortality
that is beyond death, when time has come to an end.
You understand? Time as a movement of thought and
measure, which is our consciousness. When that consciousness
empties itself, completely, then there is a state
that is totally different. The emptying of this consciousness
with its content is part of meditation, which we’II discuss, tomorrow.