Drug Enforcement Administration: Lecture Series – Forensics


TEST. TEST.>>>GOOD MORNING! SECOND IN OUR PANEL DISCUSSION
SERIES “DEA: WHO WE ARE AND WHAT WE DO.I’M LORI BEATTY, AND I’M
THE DIRECTOR OF THE DEA MUSEUM HERE AT HEADQUARTERS. OFFICE OF FORENSIC SCIENCES WITH
A MISSION TO PROVIDE QUALITY
SCIENTIFIC, TECHNICAL, AND ADMINISTRATIVE
SUPPORT TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITIES AND
TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AT LARGE, TO ASICHT WITH THE
ENFORCEMENT OF CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE LAWS AND REGULATIONS
OF THE UNITED STATES. WITHIN THE FORENSIC SCIENCES
DIVISION — CHEMISTRY, FINGERPRINTS, AND DIGITAL
EVIDENCE. THE DEA MID-ATLANTIC LABORATORY
WHERE IN ADDITION TO OTHER
RESPONSIBILITIES HE ANALYZES EXHIBITS. AND ANALYZES OUR EXHIBITS, BUT
NO. FOR THE PRESENCE OF CONTROLLED
SUBSTANCES. HAS WORKED WITH ALMOST EVERY
TYPE OF ELECTRONIC STORAGE DEVICE POSSIBLE. IT WORKS. BEFORE JOINING DEA, SHE WAS A
CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATOR. IS OUR CURATOR OF EDUCATION AT
THE MUSEUM. MINUTES OR SO DISCUSSING THE
OFFICE OF FORENSIC SCIENCES INCLUDING ITS MISSION, THEIR ROLES, TRAINING, AND OTHER
TOPICS. QUESTIONS BOTH FROM PEOPLE IN
THE AUDITORIUM, AS WELL AS THOSE WATCHING THE LIVE STREAM. PLEASE PLACE YOUR E-MAIL
QUESTIONS TO THE E-MAIL ADDRESS ON THE
DEAMUSEUM.ORG HOME PAGE.>>HELLO. GREAT TURNOUT HERE IN PERSON
TODAY AND SAYING HELLO TO THE FOLKS WATCHING US ON LINE. STARTED OFF WITH SINCE THE THEME
OF THIS SERIES IS WHO WE ARE AND WHAT WE
DO, IF YOU COULD ONE BY ONE TELL US WHO
YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU DO FOR DEA. MY JOB IS TO IMAGE, ARCHIVE, AND
ANALYZE ALL FORMS OF DIGITAL MEDIA WHICH BASICALLY — WHICH BASICALLY
MEANS I GET PEOPLE TO CREATE FORENSICALLY SOUND COPIES OF
EVERYTHING FROM DVRs WITH SURVEILLANCE CAMERA FOOTAGE,
SERVERS WITH PHARMACEUTICAL DATA BASES, GPS UNITS RECOVERED FROM
BOATS, CELL PHONES, DRONES, AND ANY SORT OF EXTERNAL
HARD DRIVER. SOME OF THETIVE EVIDENCE THAT
YOU CAN FIND ON THESE DEVICES. FINGERPRINT SPECIALIST WITH THE
DISTRICT ATTORNEY IN THE SOUTHEAST LAR WHICH IS LOCATED
IN MIAMI, FLORIDA. YEARS NOW.>>OKAY. BASIS AS A FLOWER FINGERPRINT
SPECIAL ISTAS A SENIOR FINGERPRINT ANALYST, I SEPARATE
THINGS FROM DRUGS USUALLY BY THE FORENSIC CHEMIST WHICH WOULD BE
JONATHAN. AND HE PUTS IT BACK INTO THE
VAULT FOR ME. OPEN THAT IN ORDER TO ANALYZE IT
FOR FINGERPRINTS PER THE REQUEST OF THE SUBMITTING OFFICER. FINGERPRINTS, I WILL DOCUMENT
THE FINGERPRINTS AND PRESERVE THEM WITH PHOTOGRAPHY. OFFICER HAS SUBMITTED TO SEE IF
THEY’RE IF THEY ARE NOT IDENTIFIED TO
THAT SUBJECT, THEY WILL THEN GO INTO ANOTHER DATA BASE WHICH IS THE FBI’S NGI
DATA BASE WHICH THEY ARE SEARCHED FOR
BOTH CIVILIAN AND CRIMINAL DATA BASE
SS, AFTER THAT’S IDENTIFICATION THERE, THE REPORT IS WRITTEN, AND THE
REPORT’S WRITTEN, AND WE — WE ALSO TESTIFY IN COURT TO THOSE
RESULTS WHEN WE’RE CALLED UPON TO DO SO. TO DRUG INVESTIGATIONS OUTSIDE
OF THE LABORATORY PER REQUEST OF THE
AGENTS.>>YES, WE HAVE MANY STEPS ALONG
THE WAY.>>SURE. FORENSIC CHEMIST AT THE DEA
MID-ATLANTIC LABORATORY IN LARGO, MARYLAND. ARE TO USE A VARIETY OF
ANALYTICAL TECHNIQUES AND CHEMICAL INSTRUMENTATION TO ANALYZE EVIDENCE FOR THE
PRESENCE OF I GET CALLED UPON TO COURT TO
PROVIDE EXPERT WITNESS TESTIMONY ON MY CONCLUSIONS. TO LAW ENFORCEMENT SUCH AS WITH PRESUMPTIVE TESTING, TRAINING,
OR CLANDESTINE LABORATORY PROCEDURES. OFFICES DOES DEA HAVE FOR YOUR
SPECIALTY OR YOUR PARTICULAR BRANCH?>>SO THE DEA HAS SEVEN FIELD
LABORATORIES FOR CHEMISTRY. , MIAMI, DALLAS, CHICAGO, SAN
FRANCISCO, AND SAN DIEGO. RESEARCH LABORATORY IN VIRGINIA
AND A SATELLITE LABORATORY IN NASHVILLE.>>THAT’S CORRECT. HAVE A FINGERPRINT SPECIALIST
WITHIN THE LABORATORY.>>FOR DIGITAL, OUR PRIMARY LAB
IS LOCATED IN VIRGINIA, BUT WE ALSO HAVE SATELLITE OFFICES LOCATED IN NEW
YORK, BUT UNLIKE THE CHEMISTRY LAB,
OUR SATELLITE OFFICES ARE MUCH SMALLER AND ONLY TWO TO THREE
PEOPLE PER OFFICE. AS A TEAM LIKE USING TECHNOLOGY
ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND COMMUNICATIONS IS PROBABLY VERY
IMPORTANT WHEN YOU’RE >>YES. TO KNOW PEOPLE’S BACK STORY. FIELD, HOW DID YOU COME INTO
THIS FIELD.LET’S START WITH ANNA. STORY AND HOW YOU DECIDED THAT
YOU WANTED TO BE A FINGERPRINT SPECIALIST. I WENT TO MICHIGAN STATE
THINKING I WAS GOING TO BE A CHEMIST. MY MIND. I DID GET A LITTLE FRUSTRATED
DURING MY — I THINK MY JUNIOR YEAR AND SAID TO MY COUNSELOR, I
NEED HELP FIGURING OUT WHAT TO DO WITH MY LIFE. IT’S 1989, ’90, AND SHE SAID, WE
HAVE THIS PROGRAM CALLED FORENSIC SCIENCE.NEVER HEARD OF
IT. ALSO HAS THE SCIENCE CLASSES. I SAID, THAT SOUNDS PRETTY
INTERESTING BECAUSE IT HAD A BUNCH OF LAW CLASSES TO GO WITH
IT. I SWITCHED OVER AND GRADUATED
WITH THE THEN I HAD TO TRY TO FIND A JOB. BEG MY WAY INTO BEING A CRIME
SCENE ME PERSONAL LIFE WENT FROM
MICHIGAN TO I SAID, YOU KNOW, I DIDN’T GO TO
SCHOOL DO CRIME SCENE. BUT LIFE TAKES YOU IN DIFFERENCE
WAYS, SO I BECAME THE CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATOR. WITH THAT SAID, CRIME SCENE
INVOLVES FINGERPRINTS. I SOMEHOW ENJOYED LEARNING HOW
TO DO FINGERPRINTS. LATENT PRINT EXAMINER AS WELL AS
A MY GOAL WAS ALWAYS TO BECOME
PART OF THE DEA, EVEN BACK BEFORE I WAS
HERE. AFTER I BECAME CERTIFIED WHICH
IS ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS IS FOR DEA, TO BE A FINGERPRINT
SPECIALIST. TO GO FROM TEXAS RIGHT INTO THE
DALLAS LABORATORY. LATER ON IN 2006.>>IT SEEMS LIKE LIFE EXPERIENCE
IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND IT’S TAKING YOU FROM THIS EXPERIENCE
TO THIS EXPERIENCE TO WHERE YOU ARE COMING IN TODAY. BECAUSE I THINK THAT YOU HAVE
THE LEAST EXPERIENCE AT DEA. ALSO RELEVANT TO OUR STREAMING
AUDIENCE THAT MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR A MAJOR IN COLLEGE RIGHT
NOW. ALMOST FOUR YEARS. UNDERGRADUATE STUDENT AT PENN
STATE AND YOU KIND OF PICK A FEW
MAJORS THAT YOU MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN. CHEMISTRY OR FORENSICS, BUT I
THOUGHT I WOULD BE INTERESTED IN ARCHITECTURE AT THE TIME BECAUSE I THOUGHT I
WOULD LIKE BUILDING THINGS AND DESIGNING THEM, AND I REALLY LIKED IT. I STARTED TO TAKE MORE CHEMISTRY
CLASSES. CHEMISTRY, AND I THINK WHAT I
REALIZE SUDDEN THERE’S KIND OF BUILDING IN ARCHITECTURE IN
CHEMISTRY. INSTRUMENTS TO WORK BACKWARDS
AND AND I WASN’T ARTISTIC TO DO
ARCHITECTURE. STATION WHERE I WORKED AS AN
EVIDENCE TECHNICIAN. STOLEN ITEMS FOR FINGERPRINTS,
STUFF LIKE THAT. AND I DID SOME CONTRACT WORK, I
WAS DOING FINGERPRINTS OR CONSULTING, AND I STARTED GOING TO GRAD SCHOOL AT
G.W. PART TIME.>>WELL SO I THINK OUR LAB IS A
LITTLE UNIQUE IN THAT WE HAVE A LOT OF EXAMINERS THAT HAVE
DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS. FROM THE LAW ENFORCEMENT
BACKGROUND THAT ARE FORMER POLICE OFFICERS THAT GAINED
THEIR EXPERIENCE THROUGH BEING THE ONLY FORENSIC EXAMINER IN
THE POLICE FORCE. COME FROM THE MORAL BACKGROUND
— MILITARY BACKGROUND THAT GAINED THEIR BACKGROUND WORKING
WITH VARIOUS ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS IN THE MILITARY. WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE, MY LAST
THING THAT I WANTED TO DO WAS CHEMISTRY. SO I HAD AN UNDERGRADUATE DEGREE
IN COMPUTER INFORMATION SYSTEMS BECAUSE THAT’S WHERE EVERYBODY
SEEMED TO BE GETTING THE WORK AT.CONSULTANT IN D.C. , AND I HAD STARTED MY MASTER’S
DEGREE IN I.T. SECURITY. PROGRAM THERE, THEY WERE
STARTING THE COMPUTER FORENSICS PROGRAM. SEEMS A LITTLE MORE TECHNICAL
THAN I.T. SECURITY. AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK WITH THE
DEA. I AM. MOVIES WHERE THE DIGITAL
FORENSICS SPECIALISTS ARE SITTING DOWN AT A LAPTOP AND
TOUCHING TWO KEYS AND ALL THE SUDDEN ALL THE INFORMATION IN
THE WORLD POPS UP ON THE SCREEN LIKE WHERE THEY’RE AT, AND
WITHOUT GIVING ANYTHING AWAY, I SUSPECT >>WELL, I DON’T WANT TO GIVE
AWAY ALL THE SECRETS. ASSIST WITH SEARCH WARRANTS
SEVERAL SO OUR PART, WHEN THEY EXECUTE
THE SEARCH WARRANT, WE WILL BE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY
SECURE THE SCENE, WE WILL GO IN TO MAKE SURE THAT
THE ELECTRONIC MEDIA IS SAFE AND PRESERVED, AND THAT NONE OF THE EMPLOYEES
OR HOMEOWNERS ARE ABLE TO MAKE ANY CHANGES TO THEIR
ELECTRONICS. CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATOR YOU’VE
BEEN TO >>IT HAS CHANGED, IT WAS
CLANDESTINE LABORATORIES WITH THE MAKING OF METH BUT IT’S SHIFTED NOW THAT FENTANYL
HAS TAKEN OVER THE LAB SITE. DON’T GO TO AS MANY AS WE USED
TO GO TO.>>THE CHEMISTS AT OUR
LABORATORY, WE ROTATE A SCHEDULE TO BE THE
CHEMIST ON DUTY. CLANDESTINE LABORATORY, WE HELP
FIGURE OUT WHAT KIND OF LAB THEY’RE DEALING WITH. MEASUREMENTS, DETERMINING WHAT
EVIDENCE TO BRING BACK TO THE LABORATORY, AND WHAT TO GO TO
HAZARDOUS WASTE. MUSEUM, PARTICULARLY TEENAGERS,
AND THEY ALWAYS WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THE SUITS. HIGH SCHOOLS AND STUFF, WE
USUALLY BRING>>THEY’RE HOT.>>YEP. ANGELES, SO WHEN I GOT TRAINED
IT WAS AND I WAS WEARING THE SUIT. BUT I ALSO DID A LOT OF HOT YOEG
YOEGA.>>THAT’S YOUR OUT-OF-OFFICE
TRAINING, HOT YOGA. ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND YOU HAVE
PEOPLE IN THE LABS WITH YOU AS HOW ARE
PEOPLE ASSIGNED TO CASES, OR HOW TO ANALYZE EXHIBITS. OR YOUR DESK? ON MY COMPUTER, ON OUR
LABORATORY INFORMATION MANAGEMENT SYSTEM AND SEE SOMETHING WAS ASSIGNED TO ME BY
MY BUT THE WAY IN WHICH IT’S
ASSIGNED, WHEN I FIRST STARTED WORKING, I’D KIND OF WORK A CASE FROM EXHIBIT 1
THROUGH 50. BECAME MORE EFFICIENT WITH
ORGANIZING THE SUSPECTED DRUG. CERTAIN TYPE. EXHIBITS OR — THE
METHAMPHETAMINE EXHIBIT OR COCAINE OR HEROIN, AND I’LL
ANALYZE THOSE TYPE OF SUSPECTED EXHIBITS FOR ABOUT SIX WEEKS. EFFICIENT BECAUSE I KIND OF HAVE
EVERYTHING I NEED TO DO THAT ANALYSIS, AND I CAN WORK THROUGH
ALL OF THEM. AND FORTH THROUGH DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES, I KIND OF WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE
MY >>IT SOUNDS LIKE IT’S BECOME A
MUCH MORE STREAMLINED, EFFICIENT PROCESS. DOES IT WORK THE SAME WAY IN THE
FINGERPRINT LAB, OR DOES IT WORK A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY WHEN
YOU’RE>>IT’S A LITTLE DIFFERENT. SEPARATING MOST OF OUR EVIDENCE
SO WE’RE KIND. REQUEST THROUGH THEM. THEN WE CAN GO GET IT IF THE
VAULT ALSO. RUSHES IF THERE’S SOMETHING FOR
COURT, IF SOMEBODY NEEDS SOMETHING. HAVE IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH FOR,
YOU KNOW, ANY SORT OF GRAND JURY,
WHATNOT. THEN WE’RE GOING TO GET IT LIKE
JOHN DOES, TOO. NORMALLY DO TO MEET WHATEVER
NEEDS THAT WE HAVE. DIGITAL FORENSICS THAT PEOPLE
ARE DEVELOPING SPECIALTIES IN PARTICULAR>>YES. GENERAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HOW TO
IMAGE ALL THE DIFFERENT ELECTRONIC DEVICES. WITH A SEARCH WARRANT EXECUTION,
WE CAN THEN ONCE WE GET IT BACK TO THE
LAB, WE’LL REVIEW IT AND DETERMINE
WHAT SPECIALTY IT WILL GO TO. SO WHEN WE GET A CELL PHONE THAT
COMES IF THERE IS A DAMAGED HARD
DRIVE, IT WILL GO TO A DIFFERENT GROUP. CAMERA FOOTAGE, IT WILL GO TO A
DIFFERENT GROUP. SOMETIMES WE’LL HAVE A COMPUTER
WITH PASSWORDS THAT WE’LL NEED TO
UNLOCK A CELL PHONE.>>WHAT HAPPENS TO THE EVIDENCE
AFTER IT’S BEEN EXAMINED. REPACKAGE THE EVIDENCE AND WILL
RETURN IT TO THE OFFICE THAT IT CAME FROM. PRIMARY LAB. HAVE CELL PHONES THAT WE CAN’T
BREAK INTO, AND SOMETIMES THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO TAKE THEM
APART. IN A BAGGY IN PIECES. WELL, SO I’M ASSUMNG YOU CAN’T
GIVE BACK>>OKAY.>>THAT’S ANOTHER ONE WHERE THEY
DON’T GET IT BACK. STORE IT. AGENCY FOR STORAGE, AND
GENERALLY IT STAYS IN STORAGE FOR A LONG TIME. IT FROM STORAGE, AND EVENTUALLY
WHEN THE CASE IS CLOSED AFTER SO MANY YEARS, IT IS DESTROYED. YOU GET CALLED TO COURT QUITE>>
RIGHT. RECEIVE A SUBPOENA FOR COURT AT
LEAST EVERY OTHER WEEK. TO COURT. OF COURT IS MAKING THE TRAVEL
ARRANGEMENTS. HAVE TO GO TO A LOT OF DIFFERENT
STATES, JUST GETTING ALL THE TRAVEL
DOWN. IN THIS AREA THERE’S A FEW
DIFFERENT AIRPORTS. WE SHARING A CAR, WHAT TIME ARE
WE FLYING IN, WHAT HOTEL ARE WE ALL STAYING IN, THAT KIND OF
STUFF. THE MOST STRESSFUL PART. , AND I COULDN’T FIND A PARKING
SPOT.FIT IN IT. TRAINING AND PRACTICE OF THE
ACTUAL TESTIMONY, FOR ME IT’S NOT AS BAD. SIMILAR EXPERIENCES IN GOING TO
COURT REPEATEDLY. DESCRIBING WHAT SHE DOES WHEN
SHE COMES TO COURT, SO IT’S VERY CLEAR. SOMETIMES THE REPORTS THAT WE
USE ARE USED FOR INTEL SO THEY NEVER
MAKE IT TO THE PROSECUTION STATE. WE USE IS USED TO PLEA BARGAIN,
THE PLEA BARGAIN AGREEMENTS WITH THE SUSPECT, SO WE — I GO TO COURT ABOUT ONCE
OR TWICE A YEAR. WE GET IN THE PROSECUTION STAGE
OF IT.>>UH-HUH. AND IS THERE A PARTICULAR WAY
THAT LIKE YOU’VE LEARNED OVER TIME TO DESCRIBE WHAT YOU DO IN
A WAY THAT A REGULAR PERSON WHO’S NOT A SPECIALIST CAN>>
YES. WANTS YOU TO EXPLAIN THINGS
BECAUSE OF THE “CSI” EFFECT. THERE TO SORT OF DISPEL THAT YOU
CAN’T FIND FINGERPRINTS ON EVERYTHING AT ALL TIMES. NORMALLY WE DO TESTIFY I WOULD
HAVE TO SAY 50% OF THE TIME, AND I ONLY GO TWICE SO, OKAY, 50% OF THE TIME IS’S
USUALLY NO LATENT PRINTS DEVELOPED. FINGERPRINTS WERE NOT FOUND ON
THE ACTUAL DRUG EVIDENCE ITSELF. FINGERPRINTS NO MATTER WHAT, AND
WE’RE IN THERE AND TRYING TO EXPLAIN WHY WE DID NOT FIND FINGERPRINTS ON THE
DRUG EVIDENCE. SOMETHING, I BELIEVE, THROUGH —
THROUGH EXPLAINING THE PROCESS AND
EXPLAINING THAT THE DRUGS ARE CONTAMINANTS, AND THAT IT DOES
CAUSE PROBLEMS WHEN LEAVING FINGERPRINTS BEHIND ALSO. ABOUT WHAT YOU SAID WAS THAT
THIS WHOLE “CSI” EFFECT IS — IS ONLY DATES
TO THE BEGINNING OF THAT TELEVISION SHOW WHICH, OKAY, HAS
BEEN AROUND A REALLY LONG TIME >>YES. YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE OF IN A JOB
THAT I THINK HAS BEEN LIKE CHANGING SOME OVER TIME, PARTICULARLY WITH
TECHNOLOGY OR AND I’M WONDERING HOW YOUR JOB,
HOW YOU HAVE FOUND YOUR JOB HAS CHANGED SINCE YOU STARTED OR IF IT’S BECOME
EASIER OR HARDER. BECAUSE OF THE TRANSPARENCY
THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM, THROUGH REPORTS THAT HAVE BEEN CONDUCTED OUTSIDE OF OUR
AGENCY ITSELF. PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT
YOU DID AND HOW YOU DID IT, THE THOUGHT PROCESS SO THE DOCUMENTATION HAS
INCREASED WHICH THEN DOES SLOW YOU DOWN, BUT JUST LIKE ANYTHING
ELSE, THOSE CHANGES JUST BECOME A NORM FOR AN EVERYDAY, YOU
KNOW, CASE WORK. IN WHICH YOU THINK TAKES MORE
TIME, BUT IN THE END, YOU DO ADJUST TO
THOSE CHANGES, AND IT DOES — YOU FEEL THAT THERE IS ACTUALLY
VALUE IN WHAT YOU ARE PROVIDING AS PART OF THE TRANSPARENCY OF
>>SO INTERESTING. AND I KNOW THATJILL USES
TECHNOLOGY IN HER JOB TO ANALYZE THE TECHNOLOGY THAT IS HER JOB. MY JOB IS THAT EVERYTHING IS
CONSTANTLY CHANGING. USED TO BOOT A COMPUTER WITH A
FLOPPY DISC, AND EVERYONE HAD FLIP PHONES. EVERYONE HAS SMARTPHONES, AND WE
HAVE COMPUTERS WITH NO HARD DRIVES. BECOME AWARE OF WHAT’S CHANGING
AND HOW DO YOU ADDRESS THE CHANGES AND STILL PRODUCE
INFORMATION THAT AN AGENT CAN USE IN A VIABLE FORM.>>RIGHT. GOING FROM PAPER, LAB REPORTS,
TO DIGITAL LAB REPORTS, TAKING OUR NOTES ON SOFTWARE INSTEAD OF
WRITING IT DOWN, ALSO ABOUT THE TYPES OF INSTRUMENTATION WE USE,
GET REFRESHED EVERY SO MANY YEARS. SENSITIVE, MORE RUGGED, LOWER
LIMITS OF DETECTION, SO THAT ALWAYS HELPS WITH ANALYSIS. OPPOSITE END FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE
CREATING NEW TYPES OF SYNTHETIC DRUGS ALSO IMPROVES BECAUSE
WE’LL CONTINUOUSLY SEE NEW TYPES OF DRUGS. YOU DO THIS AND THEY DO THAT,
AND NOW WE HAVE TO DO THIS, AND THEY DO THAT. BECOME BETTER, MORE PROFICIENT
AT WHAT YOU’RE DOING. A FIELD BECAUSE OF THE CSI
EFFECT, I THINK, THAT IS HUGELY
INTERESTING TO A LOT OF PEOPLE AS A FUTURE CAREER PATH. TODAY, MY E-MAIL ADDRESS IS THE
ONE THAT’S ON THE PUBLICITY, AND I WAS GETTING EMAILS FROM PEOPLE
WHO WERE SAYING, SO, IF I WANTED TO JOIN THIS CAREER FIELD, WHAT
WOULD I NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. PART OF OUR STREAMING AUDIENCE
WHO ARE VERY INTERESTED IN FIRST WHAT
YOU DO AND HOW YOU BECAME QUALIFIED TO DO IT, BUT THEN HOW
THAT WOULD TRANSLATE INTO THEN SECURING A JOB WITH DE A — DEA. NEXT ONE WHICH IS, IF YOU’RE
GIVING ADVICE, JONATHAN, TO SOMEBODY,
LIKE WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE OUR QUALITIES DO YOU THINK PEOPLE
SHOULD HAVE TO BE >>SO I’D SAY THE FIRST THING
YOU’D WANT TO DECIDE IS UNDERSTANDING THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN A CHEMIST AND A FORENSIC CHEMIST. BEING A FORENSIC CHEMIST. A TOXICOLOGIST VERSUS A FORENSIC
TOXICOLOGIST. HAVE TO BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE
YOUR RESULTS MORE, WHETHER THAT BE IN
COURT IT’S DEFINITELY — DEFINITELY A
LABORATORY-TYPE JOB WHERE YOU WORK INDEPENDENTLY. WHERE YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO BE
AN EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATOR.>>WELL, I WOULD SAY TO LOOK AT
THE USA JOBS POSTING AND LOOK AT THE QUALIFICATIONS NEEDED FOR
FORENSIC CHEMISTS. I WOULD SAY IT’S NOT NECESSARY.
>>OKAY. THAT WHEN YOU WERE IN COLLEGE,
YOU HAD A JOB, A COLLEGE JOB THAT WAS IN A
POLICE DEPARTMENT. TOGETHER THOSE KINDS OF SKILLS
BEFORE YOU EVEN GET TO THE END OF YOUR DEGREE >>YEAH. SOME SORT OF LABORATORY WORK,
JUST EXPERIENCE BEING IN A LABORATORY, AND THAT’S ALSO
GREAT FOR YOURSELF TO KNOW THAT’S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO FOR
THE REST I ALSO DID A POST GRAD
INTERNSHIP IN A THAT WAS IMPORTANT TO ME BECAUSE I
LEARNED I NEVER WANT TO TEAL WITH BODY IT’S GREAT TO GET DIFFERENT
EXPERIENCES AND DIFFERENT AREAS OF FORENSIC SCIENCE TO LEARN
WHAT’S GOOD >>ANNA, WHAT KINDS OF SKILLS OR
ABILITIES OR PERSONALITY TRAITS SHOULD SOMEBODY HAVE TO BE SUCCESSFUL
AS A>>FINGERPRINTS, YOU CAN’T GO TO SCHOOL TO BECOME A
FINGERPRINT SPECIALIST, RIGHT. FORENSIC SCIENCE, ABOUT PIGEON
HOLE ME TO FORENSIC SCIENCE. UNDERSTANDS YOU GO TO A JOB
INTERVIEW IN MY DAY, WHAT DID THAT MEAN TO
ANYBODY? SCIENCE JOBS, HOW MANY ARE OUT
THERE? DIFFERENT DEGREE THAT EVERYBODY
CAN UNDERSTANDS, IF YOU HAVE TROUBLE GETTING TROUBLE AS A
FORENSIC SCIENTIST YOU CAN JOHN MENTIONED THERE’S A
FORENSIC PART OF THE JOB AND THE NONFORENSIC PART. SO MUCH. INVESTIGATOR OR A LATENT PRINT
EXAMINER, YOU KNOW, THE WEATHER CAN BE A
PROBLEM IF YOU’RE OUTDOORS. YOU HAVE TO WORK A LOT BY
YOURSELF, YOU HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS ON YOUR
OWN. YOUR OWN AND WORK — I’LL FIND
FINGERPRINTS, YOU KNOW, IT’S A GREAT JOB.>>WONDERFUL. SOMEBODY WHO’S THINKING ABOUT
DIGITAL >>SO I CAME IN WITH AN ACADEMIC
BACKGROUND, AND I THINK IT’S GOOD TO HAVE A TECHNOLOGY
BACKGROUND ACADEMICALLY BECAUSE YOU’RE GOING TO WORK WITH THINGS LIKE DATA BASES
AND PROGRAMMING, YOU MIGHT BE WORKING WITH DATA BASES, AND
YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO REBUILD A PHARMACEUTICAL DATA BASE THAT
YOU’VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE. APPS ON PHONES THAT YOU’VE NEVER
SEEN BEFORE. REBUILD THOSE DATA BASES IN
ORDER TO SHOW AN AGENT THAT THIS PERSON WAS IN THIS CITY AT THIS
HOTEL AT THIS TIME. THEN IT’S HELPFUL TO HAVE A
SCRIPT SCRIPTING BACKGROUNDS WHICH YOU
CAN GET THROUGH ACADEMIA BECAUSE YOU
SORT OUT CERTAIN FILES THAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR, THAT YOU CAN
THEN PASS ON TO THE AGENT. BACKGROUND, GETTING AN I.T.
BACKGROUND THROUGH OTHER MEANS LIKE THROUGH THE MILITARY, LIKE
THROUGH THE POLICE, IS ALSO A GOOD WAY TO BE IN THE BACKGROUND
IN THAT WAY. FORENSIC CERTIFICATIONS THAT ARE
GREAT TO HAVE, TOO, THAT ESTABLISH
THAT YOU HAVE THE CREDENTIALS THAT WHEN YOU APPLY FOR A JOB
WITH DEA OR ANY FEDERAL AGENCY, THAT YOU KNOW WHAT YOU’RE
TALKING ABOUT. LITTLE GEEKY FOR FORENSICS
BECAUSE YOU’RE GOING TO BE HAVING TIMES WHERE YOU’RE GOING
TO HAVE TO TAKE APART AN iPHONE AND REPLACE THE BATTERY, OR
YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE APART A COMPUTER AND FIGURE OUT
WHERE IS THE HARD DRIVE AND HOW DO YOU GET THIS LAPTOP HARD DRIVE OUT FROM THIS
LAPTOP. PUT PUZZLES TOGETHER AND TAKE
THEM APART BECAUSE YOU’RE GOING TO BE DOING THAT WITH ALL KINDS OF
COMPUTERS >>EXCITING. AND I WANT TO OPEN THE FOR OUR STREAMING AUDIENCE, IF
YOU HAVE A QUESTION, IF YOU COULD PLEASE E-MAIL IT TO THE ADDRESS ON THE HOME
PAGE AT WE HAVE A QUESTION READER IN THE
AUDIENCE WHO’S READY TO TAKE THOSE AND FEED THEM TO OUR
PANELISTS. IN THE AUDITORIUM, WE HAVE A
PERSON ON EACH SIDE WHO HAS A MICROPHONE. I’M GOING TO ASK YOU TO PLEASE
USE THE MICROPHONE BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH WE CAN PROBABLY HEAR YOU,
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR STREAMING AUDIENCE CAN
HEAR YOU, AS WELL. LOOKING AT SCIENCE IS ALWAYS
LIKE AHH TO ME. SCHOOL THAT MADE IT NOT FUN. TAKE MATH, AND LIKE I’M THINKING
IN THE — IS IT MORE MATH THAT YOU NEED TO DO, AND FORENSICS ARE ONES AND
ZEROS. TAKE. LIKE CALCULUS ONE AND TWO AND
THEN THE PHYSICS CREDITS THAT I TOOK WERE THE CAL CLASS-BASED FIZZ IKZ —
CALCULUS-BASED PHYSICS. HIGHER LEVEL OF CHEMISTRY WHEN
YOU GET TO THERMODYNAMIC AND QUANTUM
MECHANICS, CHEMISTRY, THERE WAS A LOT OF MATH. POSTING FOR A CHEMIST POSITION,
I THINK IT LISTS A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF
CREDITS OF MATH AND PHYSICS AND CHEMISTRY,
AND I WOULD JUST SUGGEST LIKE THAT’S
JUST — THAT’S THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT. THAN THAT TO GET ENOUGH
KNOWLEDGE. WHEN I LOOKED FOR A MAJOR, I
WANTED A MAJOR THAT DIDN’T INVOLVE ANY FOREIGN LANGUAGE AND
DIDN’T INVOLVE A WHOLE LOT OF MATH. UNDERSTANDING OF MATH BECAUSE
YOU NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENT
SIZES FOR DIFFERENT HARD DRIVES AND YOU NEED TO BE SO SOMETIMES YOU’LL NEED TO BE
ABLE TO CALCULATE WHERE A FILE WILL BE LOCATED ON A HARD DRIVE, WHERE A FILE
WILL BE LOCATED ON A CELL PHONE, AND SO AN UNDERSTANDING OF MATH
IS IMPORTANT FOR THAT. PROGRAMS WE USE HAVE AUTOMATED
THAT PROCESS, SO WE DON’T HAVE TO DO
THE MANUAL CALCULATIONS TO DETERMINE THE LOCATIONS OF VARIOUS FILES. MICHIGAN STATE AS A BIOCHEMISTRY
MAJOR, AND I DIDN’T DO WELL IN THE
CALC-BASED PHYSICS. AND SAID, HEY, COUNSELOR, I
DON’T KNOW WHEN I’M DOING. IT DID REQUIRE CALC THREE. IT’S THE BASIS, RIGHT, MATH’S
THE BASIS. AND THE SCIENCE ALSO IS WHAT THE
FORENSIC SCIENCE WOULD HAVE TO BE MORE SO THAN THE MATH. IT EARLIER IN THE CONVERSATION. OF YOUR THREE AREAS DO TO
INTERACT WITH NOT JUST DEA CASES BUT PERHAPS
STATE AND LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT CASES OR OTHER FEDERAL AGENCIES
BECAUSE I GUESS YOU ALL, SOUNDS LIKE YOU DO ANALYSIS OF EVIDENCE
FOR OTHER PEOPLE’S CASES, AS WELL.>>SO I — WE WORK CASES, WE’RE
CALLED TO HELP WITH SEARCH WARRANTS,
BOTH WITHIN THE UNITED STATES AND OUTSIDE OF SO WE WORK WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT
IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT COUNTRIES BECAUSE DEA IS NOT JUST NOT THE
UNITED STATES. FORENSICS, AND ALSO I DO
TRAINING WITH LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT BUT ALSO DO TRAINING
WITH INTERNATIONAL LAW ENFORCEMENT. DO WE GO THERE AND DO THE
IMAGING WORK, WE’LL IMAGE THE CELL PHONE FORENSICS, BUT WE
WILL TEACH THE LAW ENFORCEMENT IN THOSE LOCAL REGIONAL OFFICES
OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTRY HOW THEY CAN DO IT, EMPOWER THEM TO BE ABLE TO MOVE FORWARD
AND CONDUCT BETTER EXAMINATIONS AND GET MORE INFORMATION SO THAT THEY CAN
HAVE BETTER INVESTIGATORSES AND WORK MORE — INVESTIGATIONS AND WORK MORE
WITH >>I’LL SAY FOR THE LABORATORY
SIDE, WHERE WE’RE — WE’RE THE DRUG LABORATORY FOR ALL THE
FEDERAL AGENCIES, RIGHT. FBI, ATF CASES. ANALYZING THE EFRD, IT — THE
EVIDENCE, IT DOESN’T LOOK THAT DIFFERENTLY, THE PACKAGING. AS FOR THE STATE AND LOCAL, WE
GENERALLY DON’T DO TOO MUCH STATE AND LOCAL CASES THERE MAY BE SOME EXCEPTIONS
WHERE WE HAVE CERTAIN CAPABILITIES, WHERE THEY MAY
NOT. LABORATORIES, THERE ARE TIMES
WHEN OUR LABORATORY WILL ASSIST A STATE
OR LOCAL LABORATORY WITH THEIR — A CLAN
LAB AND WE WOULDN’T TAKE THAT EVIDENCE.>>FOR FINGERPRINTS, WE
OBVIOUSLY WORK, IF THE DE — WE OBVIOUSLY WORK
FOR THE DEA. SEPARATED AND SENT BACK TO THE
FBI SO THAT THEIR FINGERPRINT
SPECIALISTS WILL PROCESS THAT FOR FINGERPRINTS. STATE AND THE LOCAL, THEY
USUALLY WORK THEIR TASK FORCE OFFICERS THAT WORK WITH DEA, SO WE’RE IN — THEY’RE IN
THE MIX BUT WE WOULD NORMALLY GO OUT AND
JUST WORK FOR THE LOCAL PEOPLE UNLESS OUR AGENTS ARE NEEDING THE
ASSISTANCE OF US WITH THEM IN ORDER TO MAKE THEIR
CASES. INFORMATION THAT YOU MENTIONED. DEGREE. AND HAVE INFORMATION IN THE —
CONVENTIONAL REALTIME PCR. JOBS FOR THE DEA OR ANY OTHER
AGENTS, THERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS THAT I
CANNOT PASS. FOR INSTANCE, THE SELECTED
SERVICE, HAVE YOU BEEN REGISTERED FOR SELECTED SERVICE? I CAME AFTER MY — AFTER AGE 26. PASS THIS — I CANNOT GET THE
JOB. FORENSIC SCIENCE? TECHNICAL QUESTION REGARDING THE
PROCESS OF THE USA JOBS APPLICATION THAT WOULD PROBABLY BEST BE DIRECTED TOWARD
SOMEONE IN THE HUMAN RESOURCES OR
RECRUITING SECTIONS AT DEA. SINCE YOU’RE HERE IN PERSON TO
SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO FIND THE RIGHT
PEOPLE FOR THAT. OF YOU ARE, TOO, WE HAVE ALL
BEEN THROUGH THE GAUNTLET OF THE USA JOBS, HAVE WE AND I THINK THERE’S GENERAL
PIECES OF ADVICE THAT WE CAN PASS ON ABOUT
THE >>USA JOBS. ACTUALLY THE JOB POSTINGS AREN’T SO WHAT I TRY TO TELL PEOPLE IS
TO HAVE I THINK YOU CAN ACTUALLY SET UP
ALERTS ON IT WHEN CERTAIN POSTS COME UP WITH KEY WORDS. WOULD BE TO READ THE JOB POSTING
CAREFULLY AND LOOK AT ALL THOSE KEY WORDS AND HOW YOUR EXPERIENCE
CAN APPLY TO THOSE. HIRE A RANGE FOR THE GRADES. ANSWER, THAT MAY NOT BE LIKE A
DISQUALIFYING QUESTION. WHAT GRADE YOU WOULD BEGIN AT. OF PEOPLE KIND OF HAVE THEIR
GENERAL RESUME, AND THEY SUBMIT IT FOR
ANY POSTING ON USA JOBS. RESUME AND YOUR USA JOBS ACCOUNT
TO THAT ONE SPECIFIC POSITION AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU AT LEAST ADDRESS EVERYTHING
THAT IT LISTS.>>KNOWING WHAT KEY BUZZWORDS,
AGAIN, KNOWING WHAT KEY BUZZWORDS, IF YOU HAVE IF YOU DON’T, IF YOU HAVE>>
YES. IF YOU HAVE A
CERTIFICATEIFICATION, CERTIFICATION, THERE’S A
DOCUMENT AND IT HAS TO GET UPLOADED. AND YOU DIDN’T, IT WILL KICK YOU
OUT, I BELIEVE. ATTACH EVERYTHING THAT CAN YOU
ATTACHED.>>YEAH. DOES ANY OF THE PANEL HAVE SORT
OF A FAVORITE COURTROOM STORY THEY’D
LIKE TO RELATE? I KNOW WHEN I SIT UP HERE IT
DOES SOUNDS LIKE A REALLY INTERESTING JOB,
BUT WE ALSO COME ACROSS ROUGH CONTENT, YOU SEE VIOLENT ACTS OF
TERRORISM, YOU SEE VIOLENT SEXUAL ACTS, THERE
IS JUST THE WHOLE GAMUT. CHILD PORNOGRAPHY CASE WHICH FOR
A FORENSIC EXAMINER FOR DIGITAL IS
THEIR LEAST FAVORITE THING TO DO. SO I GET TO THE COURTHOUSE, AND
I’M SITTING OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE WAITING, AND LITERALLY FROM ME TO THE —
TO HIM IS THE DEFENDANT’S MOTHER. LIKE, OH, OH, SORRY ABOUT YOUR
SON. FIRST COURT APPEARANCE. SUBJECT MATTER THAT YOU HAVE TO
DEAL WITH, AND YOU JUST HAVE TO BE IN THE ZONE AND BE PREPARED, AND WE DO
A LOT OF MOCK TRIALS WITH DEA IN
PREPARATION SO THAT YOU KNOW THAT YOU TRY TO MAKE EYE CONTACT
WITH THE JURY, AND YOU PRACTICE WHAT YOU’RE GOING TO SAY AHEAD
OF TIME >>WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE
QUESTION IF THERE ARE ANY MORE QUESTIONS. INTERFACING WITH SPECIAL AGENTS. THREE SPECIALTIES INTERFACE WITH DIVERSION INVESTIGATORS OR
INTELLIGENCE ANALYSTS IN OTHER PARTS OF AN >>FOR FINGERPRINTS, YES, THEY
DO. HAD A COUPLE OF YEARS OF
PRESCRIPTIONS, FALSE PRESCRIPTIONS,
PSEUDO-PRESCRIPTIONS. PRESCRIPTIONS THAT WOULD BE
COLLECTED DURING THEIR INVESTIGATION. CLOSELY, THAT HAS GONE AWAY A
LITTLE BIT. THEY WERE — IT ALL GOES. MUCH, JUST I GUESS THAT WOULD BE
MORE OF A CHEMISTRY ITEM. THAT I INTERACT WITH OUTSIDE THE LABORATORY ARE THE AGENTS AND
THE PROSECUTORS. I’VE INTERACTED WITH INTEL ONE
TIME. SAW THIS REPORT YOU IDENTIFIED
THIS DRUG AS A LIQUID. NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE. INTERACT WITH INTEL.WE DO. PERSON TO PERSON, I DON’T KNOW
MUCH. AND ENFORCEMENT. OFFICES AND CLINICS TO CASES
THAT ARE MORE STREET-LEVEL DRUGS LIKE YOU THINK OF MARIJUANA AND SPICE AND
CRACK-COCAINE AND OPIOIDS. AND ENFORCEMENT AGENTS. WANT, WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR
OFF THIS PHONE, ARE YOU LOOKING FOR PICTURES, ARE YOU LOOKING FOR DATA BASES, ARE
YOU LOOKING TO TRACK WHERE YOUR OVERDOSE VICTIM WAS THE DAY
BEFORE. REPORT TO SHOW — GENERATE A
REPORT TO SHOW WHERE THE VICTIM WAS THE DAY BEFORE, WHO WAS HE
CALLING, WHO IS HE INTERACTING WITH. WORK WITH ANOTHER AGENCY FOR
LANGUAGE TRANSLATION PURPOSES. GROUPS WITHIN DEA. MUCH TO OUR FORENSIC SCIENCE
PANELPANELISTS. I THOUGHT THIS WAS REALLY
WONDERFULLY INFORMATIVE AND KIND OF FUN FOR ME TO WE REALLY APPRECIATE THAT YOU
CAME TODAY TO SHARE YOUR EXPERTISE WITH OUR AUDIENCE
HERE, WITH THE AUDIENCE ON LINE, AND THEN WITH THE VIDEO THAT’S
GOING TO BE ARCHIVED LATER ON. THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO IS
HERE AND THIS WILL BE AVAILABLE LATER ON,
AND WE HOPE THAT YOU CAN ALL COME BACK FOR OUR NEXT PROGRAM
IN THE SERIES, “WHO WE ARE AND